[00:00:00] PREAMBLE
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[00:00:00]
[00:00:00] Having formal education is a huge advantage. Don't kid yourselves into thinking that just because
[00:00:05] Technology is a space where people
[00:00:06] without degrees can get in,
[00:00:08] that
[00:00:08] means
[00:00:09] that not having a degree is any sort of advantage. It's
[00:00:11] not. Not
[00:00:12] having a degree, not having a formal education
[00:00:14] is definitely
[00:00:15] still a relative disadvantage.
[00:00:17] But,
[00:00:18] clearly, because I don't have a computer science
[00:00:19] degree, I've never stepped into an
[00:00:21] IT class in my life,
[00:00:23] and I had
[00:00:23] all of one week's experience at a boot camp,
[00:00:25] clearly, formal education is not the only thing that works.
[00:00:29] Intro
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[00:00:29] Welcome to Easier Said Than Done with me, Zubin Pratap, where I share with you the tens of thousands of dollars worth of self development that I did on my journey from 37 year old lawyer to professional software engineer. The goal of this podcast is to show you how to actually do those things that are easier said than done.
[00:00:48] EPISODE START
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[00:00:48] Hey guys, welcome back to easier said than done and
[00:00:51] how to do it. So in today's
[00:00:54] episode, what I really want to talk to you about is the really difficult [00:01:00] problem of trade offs
[00:01:01] of making
[00:01:02] hard choices when you've got different options and each option means giving up other
[00:01:07] things, okay?
[00:01:08] So
[00:01:09] really we're talking about the dilemmas and trilemmas we have when facing a
[00:01:13] a prospect
[00:01:13] of learning to code or career
[00:01:15] change or acquiring new skills or anything else and
[00:01:19] understanding the implications of
[00:01:21] our choices
[00:01:22] meaning
[00:01:23] when we
[00:01:23] take a choice We're giving up certain other options and we have to be okay with that and we
[00:01:27] have to understand how to work with it
[00:01:29] So that's really the goal of today's conversation Now i'm going to apply this to the context of coding of
[00:01:35] course Because that's really what my
[00:01:36] attention is focused on at the moment Helping all
[00:01:39] these all these students that I have around the world You Successfully transition their careers safely
[00:01:43] while they hold on to
[00:01:44] their current jobs And that itself is a
[00:01:46] is a bunch of choices if
[00:01:48] you're paying attention to what
[00:01:48] I said
[00:01:49] there There are trade offs involved
[00:01:50] in that and we'll
[00:01:51] go through all of that in detail.
[00:01:52] But even though
[00:01:53] this is Right now about coding in this context
[00:01:57] Everything i've learned here
[00:01:58] is in the context of career
[00:01:59] [00:02:00] change because i've
[00:02:00] done career changes before fairly big ones And it's also in the context of making good decisions in your life generally
[00:02:08] Okay
[00:02:08] So with me
[00:02:11] screen I normally do to
[00:02:13] this to this workshop
[00:02:14] stuff that I
[00:02:14] have And that
[00:02:15] I give you access to all these documents anyway,
[00:02:17] but let's
[00:02:18] talk about
[00:02:19] What a
[00:02:19] trilemma is
[00:02:21] right now a
[00:02:21] dilemma is when you have a really tough decision
[00:02:23] to make usually between two or
[00:02:24] more choices
[00:02:26] The dilemma is any situation where you
[00:02:27] have multiple opportunities or pathways in front of you and you don't know what to do Which one you want to take
[00:02:33] because there are consequences to taking each of them and sacrifices required
[00:02:36] Now trilemma is a word specifically made up
[00:02:39] In the context of when you have
[00:02:40] to deal with three choices
[00:02:41] specifically and you have to choose between them
[00:02:43] And we'll talk about what
[00:02:44] I mean by trilemma in a moment in the context of coding because the same trilemma by the way exists in Everything in
[00:02:50] life.
[00:02:50] It's really
[00:02:51] quite extraordinary
[00:02:52] that there are these
[00:02:53] trade offs that need to be made, whether it's stuff in
[00:02:55] technology, whether it's in the delivery of services, whether it's choosing a car, [00:03:00] whether
[00:03:00] it's going on a holiday whether it's
[00:03:02] the kind of accommodation you have on a holiday, and even on, you know, stuff
[00:03:06] like the blockchain.
[00:03:07] There are true lemmas in the blockchain as well. So let me now just talk a little bit about trade
[00:03:11] offs. Let's understand
[00:03:12] together what I mean by trade offs. Yeah,
[00:03:14] a trade
[00:03:15] off is A something that you have to give up
[00:03:18] example
[00:03:19] every day
[00:03:20] that you spend learning to code you have
[00:03:23] to give
[00:03:24] That on spending on netflix or instagram or going out with friends or a concert or something like
[00:03:28] that, right? So there's a trade off. There's a decision
[00:03:30] and the latin word for decision comes from I think which means to to to
[00:03:36] Cut off to permanently remove the option off
[00:03:39] right to completely
[00:03:40] excise to cut off something
[00:03:42] so that's where the word decision come from which Implicitly means that you have to let go of something cut it off and that's what a trade off really is a trade off is
[00:03:53] I will take this
[00:03:54] and in order to take this I need to give something else up
[00:03:57] which means it's all about
[00:03:59] Giving [00:04:00] things up giving something
[00:04:01] up so that you can get
[00:04:03] something in its
[00:04:04] place Okay,
[00:04:04] that's why it's a trade off.
[00:04:07] It's not always
[00:04:08] giving something up to get
[00:04:09] something back
[00:04:10] Often
[00:04:11] you have to give something up
[00:04:12] or not get something back for a long time.
[00:04:15] So
[00:04:15] you give something up now and you maybe we'll get it back later. And that's more of a
[00:04:19] sacrifice, less of a trade off. It's a kind of trade trade off.
[00:04:22] I guess it's a sub
[00:04:23] category, if you like, of trade offs,
[00:04:25] but it's basically sacrifices where you give up something. Now
[00:04:28] you sacrifice something
[00:04:29] now
[00:04:30] and give it up entirely so that you can make room for the opportunities you want to pursue.
[00:04:34] And that also leads me to something called opportunity cost, which is really more of a finance concept and
[00:04:40] even a negotiation concept But it's true of all of life, right? Now what that means is
[00:04:44] that an opportunity
[00:04:45] cost is
[00:04:46] basically an alternative That you could have taken which could have given you at least as much gain
[00:04:51] or benefit or profit But it's not But you chose
[00:04:53] not to take, right?
[00:04:54] So that is the opportunity that you gave up in order to pursue the opportunity that you did pursue.[00:05:00]
[00:05:00] And I've linked here to the
[00:05:01] Wikipedia article. What, what, what
[00:05:02] we, I mean, you know how Wikipedia is,
[00:05:04] right? It can be a little bit hard to understand sometimes
[00:05:06] because they go too theoretical, but that's basically what an opportunity
[00:05:09] cost is.
[00:05:10] The cost of pursuing one opportunity is usually all the other opportunities you did not take
[00:05:14] up. Okay.
[00:05:15] So now that we have
[00:05:16] these. clear concepts in mind about trade offs. Let's talk about the fact that this is not something new. This has been,
[00:05:22] this
[00:05:22] is, this is the nature of the
[00:05:23] universe. Okay. This has been the way it is through history.
[00:05:26] In fact, anytime a predator, let's say a lion or a cheetah in Africa, right?
[00:05:31] Anytime it chooses on one
[00:05:32] wildebeest or deer to go after, it's giving up. All the other opportunities in that herd.
[00:05:38] Okay? And it's
[00:05:38] taking a risk.
[00:05:39] 'cause it may hurt itself. It may not catch the prey. The prey may you know,
[00:05:43] end up kicking it in the
[00:05:43] ribs and shattering its
[00:05:44] ribs. You never know. So it's
[00:05:46] taking a risk, it's pursuing one opportunity. It's giving up all the other, all, all the other animals in the herd in order to go after
[00:05:54] this one dear. So that's the
[00:05:55] nature of an opportunity cost. So it's just part of the way
[00:05:57] the universe works. Okay?
[00:05:59] Unfortunately, [00:06:00] in modern society, especially in the post
[00:06:01] Instagram world,
[00:06:02] we are so addicted to instant
[00:06:04] gratification and we are so
[00:06:06] Convinced by all these influencers out there that
[00:06:08] we can get
[00:06:08] things really really fast without too much sacrifice
[00:06:11] And some of us we don't like Having to accept that we may not get things we
[00:06:15] want on the terms
[00:06:17] we want.
[00:06:17] Much of modern society is conditioned to
[00:06:19] get instant
[00:06:20] gratification for everything. We want it all
[00:06:22] we want it in our
[00:06:23] terms
[00:06:23] We want it now, we want
[00:06:25] it in a way that's convenient for
[00:06:26] us, we want it in a way that's packaged in a way that
[00:06:29] suits us, at a time that
[00:06:30] suits us,
[00:06:31] and
[00:06:31] ideally with minimum effort or sacrifice, right?
[00:06:34] That's just not how the way, how the universe works. So indeed, not any
[00:06:38] market, you know, and the labor market's one
[00:06:40] of them as well, doesn't work like that. So let's be clear,
[00:06:43] learning to code
[00:06:44] Becoming a professional
[00:06:45] coder are two different
[00:06:46] things and both of them involved some pretty big trade
[00:06:50] offs Now for those
[00:06:51] of you who haven't heard any of my stuff before the podcast before the podcast
[00:06:54] i've been
[00:06:55] on
[00:06:55] When you when if you're confused about why I say
[00:06:58] learning to code is totally different from [00:07:00] becoming a coder Please check out some of my other
[00:07:01] stuff on my youtube
[00:07:02] channel On on spotify or on some of the
[00:07:05] interviews i've done you can go to my
[00:07:06] link tree I'll link it in the show notes
[00:07:08] and you can see why in detail.
[00:07:10] I will
[00:07:10] break down You How and why i've come to the
[00:07:13] conclusion that learning to code is totally
[00:07:14] different from coding from being a
[00:07:16] professional coder and by the way, that's a view I
[00:07:17] had
[00:07:18] When I
[00:07:19] had my first developer
[00:07:20] job because it was very clear
[00:07:21] to me then
[00:07:21] from previous careers I'd done
[00:07:23] that having the skill is totally different from being employed
[00:07:26] for that
[00:07:26] skill Okay,
[00:07:27] so learning to code has a pretty big trade off as to
[00:07:30] becoming a professional
[00:07:31] programmer now to further contextualize this idea of
[00:07:35] really
[00:07:36] difficult trilemma.
[00:07:36] Let me
[00:07:37] show you the most famous trilemma of them
[00:07:38] all, right? So for those of you who are only listening and not watching, there's three
[00:07:42] circles that are intersecting
[00:07:43] equally A like
[00:07:44] a three circle Venn diagram, okay? And
[00:07:47] one circle says good, the other circle
[00:07:49] says fast, and the other circle says cheap.
[00:07:51] And the famous trilemma is you can't
[00:07:53] have all three. It's true. It doesn't exist.
[00:07:56] , An intersection
[00:07:56] between all these three does not exist.
[00:07:58] You can have [00:08:00] two out of three.
[00:08:00] Even that is less
[00:08:02] true these days because generally
[00:08:04] the cheapest things aren't
[00:08:05] necessarily good
[00:08:07] and they're not necessarily fast, right? However, things like stuff are an exception,
[00:08:12] right?
[00:08:12] Or things like toasters, yeah,
[00:08:14] they can be cheap um, and, and reasonably
[00:08:15] fast. They may not be good quality. So that's what we typically mean by good. So good
[00:08:19] typically means good quality or inexpensive. Efficacious is the formal term, you know, something that's
[00:08:23] effective at getting what
[00:08:25] it's meant to and delivering what it's meant
[00:08:26] to
[00:08:26] deliver That's what good
[00:08:28] means fast is simply how soon can you get
[00:08:30] the result that you're hoping to get by?
[00:08:31] By,
[00:08:32] you know doing this thing and cheap is
[00:08:34] of course, does it cost money? How much money does it cost is
[00:08:37] expensive etc Now keep in mind what's
[00:08:39] cheap for one person may be expensive for another what's expensive for one person may be very cheap for others
[00:08:44] Right, that's
[00:08:44] just how it is. So it's all relative and and so this is the nature of the trilemma
[00:08:49] you can have two out of the following three good fast cheap
[00:08:52] You cannot
[00:08:53] have all three together, right?
[00:08:54] This is true of all things
[00:08:56] Like I said, this is true in the IT industry it delivery. It's true in the construction industry [00:09:00] It's true of cars
[00:09:01] It's
[00:09:01] true of learning to code and all of that So we'll talk about more of that But you see essentially what's happening
[00:09:06] here is there
[00:09:07] are tradeoffs to be made. For for
[00:09:09] If
[00:09:09] you have
[00:09:10] know Some amount
[00:09:11] of cash, but you don't have a lot of time You Then you want something that's good and
[00:09:15] fast, right?
[00:09:16]
[00:09:56] And you don't
[00:09:57] mind
[00:09:58] that it's
[00:09:58] not cheap or that it costs
[00:09:59] a [00:10:00] bit of money because that's the way you
[00:10:01] want to do it.
[00:10:02] Classic example is
[00:10:03] when you go for a holiday, you'd rather
[00:10:04] fly there than take a bus or a ship,
[00:10:07] right?
[00:10:08] Why? it's good and fast. It gets you there much faster. You have more time for the holiday, but yeah, it costs you a lot more than let's say taking a train would, right?
[00:10:14] That's the trade off. Now,
[00:10:17] let
[00:10:17] me give you a more
[00:10:18] everyday example because I Don't even own a car
[00:10:21] anymore, right? Because I live in the city of melbourne and I can ride my bike everywhere and public transport's good
[00:10:25] But there are choices that need to be made. So for
[00:10:27] example on any given day I may need to choose do I want to walk do I want to take a bus or public transport?
[00:10:33] Or do I want to take an uber
[00:10:35] right?
[00:10:35] So these are my three big choices. Now of Anywhere is
[00:10:39] walking distance. If you have enough time,
[00:10:40] right? If I'm walking five
[00:10:42] miles, um, And it's going to take
[00:10:43] me an hour, if I had the
[00:10:44] time, great. That's, there's nothing wrong with it, right? So it's free to walk.
[00:10:47] It's not fast
[00:10:48] at all. It's the slowest of the lot.
[00:10:50] And there are huge opportunity costs
[00:10:51] For in that one hour, I could be
[00:10:53] doing something else. Maybe
[00:10:54] I could go to the gym for a workout.
[00:10:55] Maybe I could reading a book.
[00:10:56] Maybe I could be making another podcast.
[00:10:58] Maybe I could be
[00:10:58] writing some code.
[00:10:59] There's [00:11:00] an opportunity cost there, right? That time can be used for other things.
[00:11:03] Plus it's
[00:11:03] really not very convenient. For example, what if it starts raining
[00:11:07] What if it's too hot? What if the road is really uncomfortable and you have to go through freeways? There are all
[00:11:11] kinds of discomforts
[00:11:12] involved, right?
[00:11:13] So it's not very convenient
[00:11:14] to necessarily walk to a lot of
[00:11:15] places, but where it is, it's fine.
[00:11:18] So that's one
[00:11:18] option. The
[00:11:19] next option is
[00:11:19] taking a bus or some form of
[00:11:21] public transport. Now, of course,
[00:11:22] that's going to cost a bit of money,
[00:11:23] right?
[00:11:24] It's faster than walking for sure,
[00:11:26] But it could still take a fair bit of time,
[00:11:27] depending on how the public transport is routed, depending on what the route is, depending on where I'm trying to go, etc.
[00:11:33] And it's often quite inconvenient. It doesn't come to my door, for
[00:11:35] example. So I need to walk someplace to a bus stop or a train stop or a tram stop
[00:11:40] and Gather with a whole bunch of other
[00:11:42] people at the stop and wait
[00:11:44] there. So there's there's wait
[00:11:45] times On the On the
[00:11:46] boarding
[00:11:47] side there's wait times on the drop off side Because it doesn't actually drop me off directly to the door of my
[00:11:52] destination. It may drop me off Um, you know either five
[00:11:55] minutes away or 20 minutes away I don't know it
[00:11:56] depends on
[00:11:57] where where my destination is So [00:12:00] there's still a lot
[00:12:00] of stuff you need to figure out
[00:12:01] but it's definitely faster than
[00:12:03] walking
[00:12:03] It's definitely more convenient than walking But it still has a lot of inconveniences and discomforts and definitely a price tag attached to it
[00:12:10] And then There's the uber
[00:12:12] option right which is on demand.
[00:12:14] It's on my schedule. It picks me up at my door
[00:12:17] It gives me what they give me a bottle of
[00:12:18] water.
[00:12:18] There's a good conversation. There's a pleasant
[00:12:20] experience
[00:12:21] It's not shared or crowded or uncomfortable or trouble finding a seat It drops me off at the exact
[00:12:26] destination that I decided
[00:12:27] and I can jump out and i'm where I want and it just you know Smoothly takes it out of my credit card, right now No question.
[00:12:34] It's the fastest option. No question. It's the most reliable option because public transport can get cancelled or delayed and so on
[00:12:41] Right
[00:12:41] faster way more reliable. You
[00:12:43] kind of know
[00:12:44] you're going to
[00:12:44] get there unless it's a bad
[00:12:45] accident
[00:12:46] For get
[00:12:47] there - fast
[00:12:48] it's way more and convenient But it is also the most expensive of the
[00:12:52] lot. So what again, that's the classic
[00:12:54] dilemma,
[00:12:54] right? It's fast It's very it's the best
[00:12:56] of the lot in terms of quality and goodness if you
[00:12:58] like, but it's [00:13:00] definitely
[00:13:00] not the cheapest It's the most expensive alternative So this is a classic example of trade offs and we all make these every day in our life
[00:13:07] Every
[00:13:08] single day in our life we make these trade offs, right?
[00:13:11] And
[00:13:11] without realizing it we do up do a lot with our careers as well And we do it
[00:13:15] because we're conditioned to be afraid of of
[00:13:17] some
[00:13:18] things, right? We're afraid of loss
[00:13:19] And so it drives really strange behaviors, but I'll get
[00:13:22] to that in a moment Now I want to make a quick qualification here folks
[00:13:26] When I say something is expensive or something is cheap and not good It's not necessarily a
[00:13:31] judgment of right or wrong
[00:13:33] because these are perfectly valid choices Okay these are all valid choices whether I walk
[00:13:37] take a take public transport or I drive or I take an uber They're all valid choices.
[00:13:42] But the question is Is a given
[00:13:45] choice better for the individual?
[00:13:47] So Is a specific choice the right choice in that context for that person? So it's very specific the to Which is why
[00:13:55] when I work with my students I will always have a call with students
[00:13:59] [00:14:00] before
[00:14:00] them into my program to say
[00:14:01] First and foremost, is this
[00:14:02] right? Is this right for you? Is this right for me because i'm the coach and I need
[00:14:06] to spend 6 to 12 months
[00:14:07] of my life working with you getting results for you and similarly for you You've got to work with me You've got the other one who
[00:14:13] has to put in the effort because I
[00:14:14] can't do the learning for you I've already done mine You've got to do yours
[00:14:17] and it's got to be a good fit both
[00:14:19] emotionally
[00:14:20] intellectually
[00:14:20] in of our philosophies
[00:14:22] Um In terms of the goals and whether or
[00:14:23] not I can actually deliver it to you, right?
[00:14:25] So there has to be a question of, is it right for the person or not?
[00:14:28] So there's no
[00:14:29] right or wrong objectively. It's, is it right in this context for this person
[00:14:33] and some choices, there's no
[00:14:35] question about it, are better than others for the specific
[00:14:37] individual,
[00:14:37] right? So
[00:14:38] there are such
[00:14:39] things as good judgment and bad judgment, good
[00:14:41] choices and bad
[00:14:41] choices. Now, let me give you an
[00:14:43] example.
[00:14:44] So let's
[00:14:44] say a person cannot afford an Uber.
[00:14:46] Right? And so, naturally,
[00:14:47] because they can't afford an Uber, they've got to take public transport,
[00:14:50] let's say in this example, which means they've
[00:14:52] got to be a whole lot more organized about their timing. They've got to get to the bus
[00:14:57] stop on time.
[00:14:57] They've got to, you know,
[00:14:59] account for the [00:15:00] fact
[00:15:00] that the bus may be very crowded, or the
[00:15:01] train may be very crowded. There may
[00:15:03] not be
[00:15:04] opportunities to board that train at that time,
[00:15:06] or that the
[00:15:06] train may be
[00:15:07] late.
[00:15:07] And so, what do
[00:15:08] you do then? So, you've got to build all this buffer and
[00:15:10] planning. Okay?
[00:15:11] Okay.
[00:15:11] Now, maybe it doesn't matter on most days, but what
[00:15:14] if
[00:15:14] this person is really late for an
[00:15:16] interview,
[00:15:17] right?
[00:15:17] They're super late
[00:15:18] for an important meeting like an interview
[00:15:20] and the bus or the train gets delayed or canceled
[00:15:22] Now they can't
[00:15:23] afford an uber.
[00:15:25] So what's their
[00:15:25] choices, right? Most likely people will say, well,
[00:15:28] I can't really afford it, but I'll find a way anyway.
[00:15:30] And somehow
[00:15:31] people who can't
[00:15:31] afford it will
[00:15:32] find a way
[00:15:33] when, when the tax man
[00:15:34] comes collecting or somebody else comes collecting, they, they'll, they'll find a way.
[00:15:37] So
[00:15:38] if the situation's important enough, people who
[00:15:39] can't afford it will find a way, they'll, they'll ask a friend, they'll borrow from somebody, they'll find
[00:15:43] a way. Right?
[00:15:44] But what if somebody.
[00:15:46] Had
[00:15:47] access to somebody to lend them money, for example, but then
[00:15:50] did
[00:15:51] not choose to use that Because they did not want to borrow money and so they missed the job interview, which is important to them
[00:15:57] Now again, there's no right or wrong, but I [00:16:00] think most people would argue Well, that's not the best decision in the
[00:16:03] circumstance because if the
[00:16:04] job
[00:16:04] interview is
[00:16:05] really important and it's going to give you income in future you You kind of got to
[00:16:08] put your best foot forward, even
[00:16:09] if it's not
[00:16:10] the easiest or most convenient.
[00:16:12] Now let's flip that
[00:16:13] example around, right?
[00:16:15] What if someone who does have
[00:16:17] enough money for an Uber
[00:16:18] chooses to be at
[00:16:19] a public transport? Nothing wrong with that at
[00:16:21] all. But then the train is late.
[00:16:24] Right. So they can easily take an Uber,
[00:16:26] but they're waiting at the station and
[00:16:28] the train station
[00:16:29] and the train is late.
[00:16:31] And then they
[00:16:32] decide not to spend the money on an Uber because they didn't want to be bothered
[00:16:35] spending the money and they missed the job interview.
[00:16:38] So they can afford the Uber, but they chose not to spend it
[00:16:40] because they
[00:16:41] rather wanted to hold the money
[00:16:42] and they were
[00:16:43] willing to risk the job interview.
[00:16:45] Most people would say that's not the smartest or the
[00:16:47] wisest decision, depending on your goals, about whether it's the right You
[00:16:51] know, think for that person. The question is
[00:16:53] for that person in that moment, was that a
[00:16:55] wise decision or not so much?
[00:16:58] And this is the
[00:16:59] classic [00:17:00] problem of trade offs,
[00:17:01] of dilemmas,
[00:17:02] of
[00:17:03] trilemmas. There's no right or wrong, but there is a right or wrong for you.
[00:17:07] And that's an important part
[00:17:08] because it gives us the power to take responsibility and say well You know, maybe i'm saving money is a good thing most of
[00:17:14] the time But
[00:17:14] in this circumstance, I need to invest the money correctly or
[00:17:17] you say
[00:17:18] maybe investing the money is is the
[00:17:20] right Situation or the right strategy and a lot of times but in this
[00:17:23] situation
[00:17:24] i'm going to hold on to
[00:17:25] that
[00:17:25] money Businesses do this all the
[00:17:26] time, right?
[00:17:27] So anytime there's a down market in the job market
[00:17:29] a lot
[00:17:30] of companies have the
[00:17:31] cash But they're
[00:17:32] choosing not to invest it when the market's good
[00:17:34] They choose to invest that cash, right? It's a judgment call and some people do it, right? And some people screw up and make mistakes and that's just how it is
[00:17:41] Some companies do the
[00:17:41] same thing, right?
[00:17:42] They misallocate their funds the same principle. There's no right or wrong universally, but there is a right or wrong for that circumstance in that context in that person So
[00:17:51] let's talk about
[00:17:51] the coding dilemma, right fast good cheap.
[00:17:54] Once again, it's all
[00:17:55] relative to you
[00:17:56] now a 25 year old
[00:17:57] person
[00:17:58] Would
[00:17:58] probably be [00:18:00] happier to spend more time Rather than spend more money
[00:18:03] on things.
[00:18:03] Maybe
[00:18:04] they have less money and they have a lot more time ahead
[00:18:05] of them, right? It's a trade
[00:18:06] off.
[00:18:07] So they're like, okay This takes me three years to
[00:18:09] try and figure out what I want to do in my life with my career Not uncommon, right?
[00:18:12] Maybe i'll go traveling for a year Maybe i'll try this and i'll
[00:18:14] try that and
[00:18:15] i'll do this and
[00:18:16] i'll do that for three years
[00:18:17] and then decide That's what a lot of
[00:18:18] people when they're
[00:18:19] young do
[00:18:20] right?
[00:18:20] I did that too So when you're doing that, that's because you have more
[00:18:23] time and you'd rather
[00:18:24] spend the time rather than
[00:18:25] spend the money And that's
[00:18:26] Makes a lot of sense at that stage in your life. Well, what about someone who is older 35 years old? Let's say and you know
[00:18:34] kind of short of
[00:18:35] time, right?
[00:18:35] Because they're almost halfway through their career by the time you're
[00:18:37] 40 You're about halfway through your career and you're like, okay
[00:18:41] I don't have a great deal of time to get to the kind of career level salary
[00:18:44] promotion seniority that I like I kind of need
[00:18:46] to make this
[00:18:47] jump soon now to that
[00:18:48] person
[00:18:49] Time is
[00:18:49] going to be way more valuable than money and I know this because that was the situation I was in right?
[00:18:54] But there's a friend of mine Michael, who I
[00:18:56] met while I was at Google, who's now a DeepMind, great guy. I should
[00:18:58] actually have him on the show. [00:19:00] Fantastic guy.
[00:19:00] He was a, a consultant and I think he was 29 or
[00:19:02] 30 when he realized he was very unhappy after being six or
[00:19:06] seven years as a consultant. He was quite
[00:19:07] unhappy and he took a massive risk, right?
[00:19:10] He, he's from Melbourne in Australia
[00:19:12] and he pulled out all the savings. I think it was, you know, you know, the six figures at that point of time and he pulled all of that out and Went to the U.S. And invested it in a master's of data science
[00:19:21] Not knowing
[00:19:22] whether he was going to get a job at the end of it because we all know there's no guarantees
[00:19:25] You know when it comes to this kind of stuff, he didn't know that
[00:19:28] but he he calculated one thing in his head He said look
[00:19:31] I have this cash I may not
[00:19:32] have it in the future
[00:19:33] and I
[00:19:34] want to invest in myself now
[00:19:35] because if I invest it There's a very high chance that i'll get recovery if I don't invest it.
[00:19:41] My chance of success is
[00:19:42] much lower So So he invested in, I think he went to Stanford, I can't remember. Right. He went to a really good school
[00:19:48] and he did his master's day in data science and machine learning,
[00:19:51] and then he
[00:19:51] joined Google. So it paid off
[00:19:52] for him. Right. And now he's a deep mind. So it really,
[00:19:55] really paid off for him,
[00:19:56] but he will tell you, as he's told me
[00:19:58] over many lunches, [00:20:00] that it wasn't an easy
[00:20:00] decision. It wasn't a comfortable decision because obviously the more money you're spending, the more it feels like a loss, the more it feels like a risk, right? Like spending 10 K is so much easier than spending
[00:20:09] 80 K.
[00:20:10] And that's because.
[00:20:12] Either way, it's a lot of money But it's
[00:20:14] really a lot
[00:20:15] of money when it's all your savings and
[00:20:16] stuff But he knew that there was a much
[00:20:18] higher probability of success by doing it that way
[00:20:21] Than by
[00:20:21] not doing it that
[00:20:22] way and for him the time was important He wanted to accelerate it and sure
[00:20:26] enough within
[00:20:26] 18 months.
[00:20:27] He was in google,
[00:20:28] right? So
[00:20:29] that's an example of someone saying
[00:20:30] okay
[00:20:31] i'm going to make the trade off
[00:20:32] I'm going to invest the cash I
[00:20:33] have and i'm going to gain back an extra five
[00:20:36] years of seniority In my career get to the to the goal and even if I don't land at google I'll probably get a really good job in
[00:20:43] silicon valley like he was pretty confident
[00:20:44] of that, right?
[00:20:45] Because he was investing in the right kind of tools in education. So that's an example now
[00:20:50] Same thing in code.
[00:20:51] You can learn
[00:20:51] to code in multiple
[00:20:52] ways and there's no right or wrong
[00:20:54] way, but there is a right or
[00:20:55] wrong way for you. Unfortunately, that's the truth, right? Because
[00:20:58] no matter how hard we [00:21:00] work, if we're going in
[00:21:00] the wrong direction
[00:21:01] or we're using the
[00:21:02] wrong
[00:21:03] levers, we're not going to get the
[00:21:05] results we want.
[00:21:06] We need to use the
[00:21:06] right tool. So
[00:21:07] similarly
[00:21:08] for most of us and for a lot of people in different parts of the world, especially
[00:21:13] DIY, learning yourself on your own, trying to figure it out from the internet.
[00:21:18] Is probably the the
[00:21:19] only way a lot of people can do it and that's
[00:21:21] fine There's nothing wrong with it I spent a
[00:21:23] large
[00:21:24] portion of my
[00:21:25] 30s trying to do it that way and it wasn't quite working for me But i've done it
[00:21:28] that way. So I understand the impulse. I understand the impulse to not want to
[00:21:31] Invest in a boot camp ,
[00:21:32] and for those
[00:21:32] of you who follow my
[00:21:33] podcast You know, I did eventually
[00:21:34] invest in a boot camp
[00:21:36] I borrowed, you know $54,
[00:21:37] 000 and then I quit at the end of one week and lost nine nine thousand dollars because it wasn't the right fit for me but I did But there was no way I could have known that until I'd taken the risk and
[00:21:45] done it. And I did
[00:21:46] lose, I lost 9, 000, right? So and it was 9, 000 of a mortgage
[00:21:51] after my startup failed and after I'd lost a lot of
[00:21:53] cash
[00:21:54] and didn't have
[00:21:55] income coming in for two years. So it was, it really hurt, but it taught me a lot of valuable
[00:21:59] [00:22:00] lessons and I made the most of that failure. So
[00:22:02] again, not everyone can do that.
[00:22:03] I totally, totally, totally
[00:22:04] get it. So for most
[00:22:06] of the world, DIY,
[00:22:07] learning on your own, flying blind is basically Perhaps the best way you can do it and you try and guess your way to success and great
[00:22:12] There's nothing wrong with that. The reality is
[00:22:15] it is
[00:22:15] The cheapest option and therefore it's not the fastest
[00:22:18] option.
[00:22:18] It is definitely the
[00:22:20] slowest option and it's also the riskiest
[00:22:22] option,?
[00:22:22] So, I
[00:22:22] mean,
[00:22:24] let me try and break it down
[00:22:24] this way when you
[00:22:25] DIY. Yes, you save a lot of money It's super cheap. You get to hold on to the money. So there's no risk financially Unless you calculate
[00:22:32] the
[00:22:32] The high probability of failure because it's much more
[00:22:34] likely You're
[00:22:35] not going to succeed when you're doing it yourself and you're guessing and so it's
[00:22:38] not For those of you who are looking to increase your salary
[00:22:41] the risk is that you'll
[00:22:42] never increase your
[00:22:43] salary Not that you lose the money you could have spent in a boot camp
[00:22:46] Yes, there's
[00:22:46] that too.
[00:22:47] But the real risk is the unearned
[00:22:50] income that you're never going to access
[00:22:51] but
[00:22:51] that's a trade off at least it's cheap. You
[00:22:54] know, you're not spending money right now You don't have the
[00:22:56] money
[00:22:56] and that's understandable. A lot of
[00:22:57] people won't that's just normal
[00:22:58] For a lot of people. [00:23:00] And so you just had to take the chance and go, okay,
[00:23:02] I'm going to try and figure this
[00:23:03] out for myself.
[00:23:04] It's going to be slow. I'm probably going to find it really miserable and stressful and extremely,
[00:23:08] extremely confusing and overwhelming. You know,
[00:23:11] but that's just how it is, right? And the risk of success is low, but
[00:23:14] I
[00:23:14] understand that that's the trade off and willing to make.
[00:23:16] Now, the next option
[00:23:17] is, you know, colleges or bootcamps
[00:23:19] doing a computer science
[00:23:20] degree or a bootcamp.
[00:23:21] Again, these are slightly different options
[00:23:22] because computer science degrees are much longer. They're
[00:23:24] more expensive. Boot camps are much more short , very intense, but they don't give you the
[00:23:28] same depth of knowledge.
[00:23:29] Obviously, they don't you know, how can you do in four months, which you'd otherwise do in two years?
[00:23:33] That's not realistic or feasible.
[00:23:35] And so there are trade offs here as well. Now, of course, they're faster, way faster than trying to do it in your own. No question.
[00:23:42] No
[00:23:42] question about it. And
[00:23:44] for a lot of people this
[00:23:45] is a good experience But bootcamps for example can be a negative experience for some people
[00:23:49] because in in six or you know 12
[00:23:52] or 14 weeks or however long that
[00:23:53] bootcamp is they compress a lot
[00:23:55] and they
[00:23:55] You know require you to do
[00:23:56] 10 hours a day and it's intense and it's
[00:23:58] a sink or swim sort of [00:24:00] thing You have to get done you get
[00:24:01] kicked out I've had lots of people from bootcamps
[00:24:03] come
[00:24:03] to my program lots of them Because they,
[00:24:06] they just couldn't cope with the actual bootcamp.
[00:24:08] It was too intense.
[00:24:09] And they felt that they weren't learning. They were, they
[00:24:11] were so stressed trying
[00:24:11] to rush through it, that they weren't learning.
[00:24:13] It's not the case
[00:24:14] for everybody. Plenty of
[00:24:15] people have succeeded at bootcamps.
[00:24:16] You know, especially
[00:24:17] people with some prior background, they're very likely to succeed at bootcamps and bootcamps are great for them.
[00:24:21] But
[00:24:21] the costs are high. There's the fee of the bootcamp
[00:24:24] and then for the good ones because most bootcamps
[00:24:26] aren't very good But the good ones are going
[00:24:28] to require full time
[00:24:29] attention and attendance, which means you're giving up your job And therefore that
[00:24:33] means you're losing
[00:24:33] income So the total cost to you is
[00:24:35] your lost income
[00:24:36] for that 6 to 12 month period
[00:24:38] because
[00:24:38] most most of the
[00:24:39] times it'll take
[00:24:40] 6 to 12 months to actually Learn
[00:24:42] everything you
[00:24:42] need to become
[00:24:43] professionally hired and find
[00:24:44] a job.
[00:24:44] Um, And then
[00:24:45] there's the
[00:24:45] cost of the bootcamp So your your total fee is cost of
[00:24:48] bootcamp plus lost
[00:24:49] income, right?
[00:24:49] Because you're actually losing cash for that period so you know, it works for a lot of people.
[00:24:55] It's great. There's nothing wrong with it. If you've got the cash and you've got the time. Do a bootcamp. [00:25:00] No question about it, right? But
[00:25:02] the costs are high. , But it doesn't work for everybody. It doesn't necessarily mean it's the right thing
[00:25:06] for other people.
[00:25:07] And a lot of people don't necessarily want to be taught the exact identical thing that other people are being taught because it
[00:25:13] kind of assumes you're at the same starting point
[00:25:15] and you want to end up at the same ending point.
[00:25:17] It's kind of
[00:25:18] like the bus stop
[00:25:19] or, you know, it's like the bus experience.
[00:25:21] It's not really door
[00:25:22] to door.
[00:25:22] It just tells
[00:25:23] you, Hey, if you're, if you're interested in exactly this combination of skills,
[00:25:27] then
[00:25:27] fine. You have to be at this starting point. If you're not, you're not going to keep up. And,
[00:25:30] you know, a lot of bootcamps have entrance tests for this reason. And it says like, well, all right, this is what we're going to do is a
[00:25:35] fixed curriculum.
[00:25:36] There's no customization of this at all.
[00:25:38] So this is where we drop you off. That's where we finish up. Right. So that's the end to end path
[00:25:42] in a lot of the colleges and bootcamps. It's the same thing. It's
[00:25:46] basically structured. Right structured a standardized
[00:25:49] education is all the
[00:25:50] same things same starting point
[00:25:52] same ending
[00:25:52] point for everybody And there's a price tag involved and look
[00:25:55] they're great services.
[00:25:56] They
[00:25:56] compress into a short period of time What would otherwise take people years [00:26:00] and years and years?
[00:26:00] They do it
[00:26:01] really fast They give you all the stuff that you need they take away all the decision making and they keep you accountable. So it's great. You know, it works for a lot of people. So that's great Definitely a good option.
[00:26:11] And if you can, you should do it.
[00:26:13] THIRD OPTION
---
[00:26:13] The third
[00:26:13] option is what I ended up wishing that I had for myself. After five and a half years of
[00:26:17] stumbling around. And
[00:26:18] that's why I ended up creating this
[00:26:19] or this offer for people is personalized coaching because I was out a lot of money at
[00:26:24] that point in time. I hadn't been
[00:26:25] earning income for
[00:26:26] a couple of years
[00:26:27] and I was spending money
[00:26:28] trying to re
[00:26:29] redo my, my career into a coding career.
[00:26:31] And I was 37, 38, I think at this point in time.
[00:26:34] And so I said,
[00:26:35] I can't believe
[00:26:36] I can't find a personal coach. I did find a coach.
[00:26:38] , And she was more
[00:26:39] of a a career sort of coach, completely non technical, but frankly she helped me so
[00:26:43] much. Like I doubt that I would have made the
[00:26:44] transition successfully after four years
[00:26:46] of trying
[00:26:47] had she not helped.
[00:26:47] But I realized
[00:26:49] what was really needed is a combination of career coaching,
[00:26:51] real quality career
[00:26:53] coaching, and a little
[00:26:54] bit of life
[00:26:55] life coaching, but really
[00:26:56] career coaching.
[00:26:57] And technical guidance and
[00:26:58] coaching and
[00:26:59] structuring, [00:27:00] right?
[00:27:01] And then there's all the stuff about understanding what the hiring side is which I
[00:27:04] happen to have from my past
[00:27:06] background both in tech As
[00:27:07] on the hiring side,
[00:27:08] but also non tech roles So I wanted to combine all of these things into a personal coaching
[00:27:12] offer And that's what I ended up creating
[00:27:15] the future coders inner circle program
[00:27:16] for .
[00:27:17] Now in terms
[00:27:17] of speed It's about the same as a boot camp, six to 12 months for most
[00:27:21] people, right?
[00:27:21] And depending on, on the circumstances,
[00:27:23] it could be a bit longer. Like one of my students got married in the middle and, you
[00:27:26] know, so obviously two months went off and that and things like that. And so,
[00:27:30] but that
[00:27:30] it's personalized.
[00:27:31] It's not a big deal if you need to do that.
[00:27:33] We just adjust the end dates.
[00:27:34] But it's a comfortable experience
[00:27:35] that way. Right.
[00:27:36] And I customize it to every person because I've got students in more than eight countries now that I've worked with over the last two years. Three years. And, you know, pretty much
[00:27:42] a hundred percent of the
[00:27:43] people who follow my plan will get the results.
[00:27:45] And so
[00:27:46] that means it's completely
[00:27:46] customized. I understand what starting level they're
[00:27:49] at, what their timing is.
[00:27:51] , And if they've got 15 to 20 hours
[00:27:52] a week, they're welcome to, you know, join the program,
[00:27:54] assuming they meet other requirements as well.
[00:27:56] But ultimately it's a question of where are they in their
[00:27:59] life? Do they have
[00:27:59] [00:28:00] kids? Do they have a full time
[00:28:00] job? How much
[00:28:01] free time do
[00:28:02] they have? How do we structure that time? How long is this going to take? What do they need to learn? Which
[00:28:05] country are they
[00:28:06] in? What does that country value in
[00:28:07] terms of the job market? How is
[00:28:09] recruitment done in that country?
[00:28:10] And finally, what do they need
[00:28:12] to learn when, which order, and so on and so forth.
[00:28:14] So it takes a lot of time. And it
[00:28:16] takes when I say time it's not the kind of thing that you can do in a weekend It's not the kind of thing you can do in a three month boot camp There's a consistent process and
[00:28:22] you know that I now follow and I customize it to everybody, right? So it is generally cheaper than a boot
[00:28:28] camp because I don't
[00:28:28] do the huge
[00:28:29] numbers, right? So I don't have all
[00:28:30] the overheads. It's
[00:28:32] cheaper than the best boot
[00:28:33] camps
[00:28:33] in the u. s For sure quite a bit cheaper
[00:28:35] And it's a lot longer because
[00:28:36] I tell people i'd rather
[00:28:38] you take a bit more time Than rush and burn out and also we want to get it right.
[00:28:42] We
[00:28:42] absolutely want to get it right We don't
[00:28:43] want to standardize and give you all the
[00:28:45] same thing ... no two students get
[00:28:46] the same plan for me not so
[00:28:48] far. Anyway, it's never happened
[00:28:49] Because different countries different people different goals different starting points, all means that you know, everybody's plan ends up being quite different
[00:28:55] And of course, so those are the trade offs there,
[00:28:58] right?
[00:28:58] It's going to cost a bit of money to
[00:28:59] work with me But It's [00:29:00] probably going to take six to twelve months with me but it's going to be personalized, so it's going to be extremely comfortable, convenient, and
[00:29:05] well, I
[00:29:05] wouldn't say comfortable because I
[00:29:06] push my students quite hard in terms of, you know, some of the psychology and
[00:29:10] mindset stuff and some of the
[00:29:11] excuses that people come
[00:29:12] up with,
[00:29:13] but it's
[00:29:13] definitely a lot more, it's,
[00:29:15] it's it's an
[00:29:15] Uber ride, you know, you're, you're basically going to get taken from where you are and delivered to your destination.
[00:29:20] And of course there's a price tag attached. It's less than
[00:29:22] bootcamps and so on and so forth. So those, again,
[00:29:24] those are just trade offs. I'm not
[00:29:25] saying it's right. In fact, for most people, I will actually end up saying no to them when they, when they asked
[00:29:29] to be in my program,
[00:29:30] because I'm not
[00:29:30] going to work with someone that I'm not sure I'm going to
[00:29:33] succeed for, because I have a track
[00:29:35] record I need
[00:29:35] to maintain.
[00:29:36] So purely selfish reasons there as well. I don't want to disappoint other people of
[00:29:39] course, but if I
[00:29:40] say that people will be like, oh,
[00:29:41] you know That
[00:29:42] can't be the real reason. Well, the real reason is I don't want to disappoint other
[00:29:45] people I take people's
[00:29:46] careers very very seriously. It affects multiple generations and it affects people's confidence.
[00:29:51] It affects their sense of self It affects their futures. It's
[00:29:54] it's a big
[00:29:55] responsibility to help somebody with their career huge
[00:29:57] responsibility so I don't want
[00:29:59] to take that on if i'm [00:30:00] not
[00:30:00] confident I can deliver
[00:30:01] and
[00:30:02] I don't want to
[00:30:02] take that on if I'm not confident that I can continue my
[00:30:05] track record because I worked very
[00:30:07] hard for that.
[00:30:07] So , you know, it's in my
[00:30:09] interest to make sure my
[00:30:09] students succeed
[00:30:10] and therefore it's in my interest to make sure I choose the kind of students who are likely to succeed
[00:30:15] and who are willing to stay committed for a sustained period of time and think
[00:30:18] really big with their careers.
[00:30:19] So these are all
[00:30:20] trade offs right now I would compare
[00:30:22] You know doing it yourself
[00:30:24] to probably
[00:30:24] walking
[00:30:25] and you know
[00:30:26] boot camps and colleges to taking a bus you know, you
[00:30:29] all land up at the starting point That's the same and then
[00:30:31] you land up at the ending point.
[00:30:32] That's the same
[00:30:33] and I would I would explain how I do with personal coaching more of an uber
[00:30:37] thing I understand where you're at and I come to you and we build a plan starting from where you're at And then we build
[00:30:42] all the way
[00:30:42] to the goal that's specific to you
[00:30:44] And so that obviously takes a lot more time
[00:30:46] now all this aside I know a lot of people complain out there about well, why?
[00:30:53] You know, why
[00:30:53] should any of us do a CS degree?
[00:30:55] It's not needed
[00:30:56] anymore. The recruiters aren't using it
[00:30:58] or
[00:30:58] the recruiters don't [00:31:00] require it is the argument , and we can do for free anyway.
[00:31:02] So, you know, why, why should we
[00:31:03] do it? And,
[00:31:04] you know, you're right there. IT is probably one of the spaces where
[00:31:08] you don't need a formal degree to get
[00:31:10] in.
[00:31:10] That's probably true,
[00:31:11] but that's not the same
[00:31:13] thing as saying that your
[00:31:15] chances are high without a formal degree. That is absolutely not true. Your chances are way higher. Okay. Way higher
[00:31:21] with a computer science
[00:31:21] degree, right?
[00:31:22] And that's only because people don't think the
[00:31:24] computer science degree
[00:31:25] means
[00:31:25] , You're
[00:31:25] going to be great at the job What they what they know
[00:31:27] it means
[00:31:28] is that you've had the basic training
[00:31:30] From a decent institution
[00:31:31] and you've had the ability to stick to something long enough to get that degree Because those are highly structured environments and you basically
[00:31:39] have the ability to
[00:31:39] stick to something and see it through That's the real
[00:31:41] signal that they get And
[00:31:43] you have the domain
[00:31:44] expertise or some
[00:31:45] knowledge in that space because you've been trained You On the classical, you know, sort of concepts
[00:31:49] in that in that place.
[00:31:50] So.
[00:31:51] Absolutely having formal education is a huge advantage. Don't kid yourselves into thinking that just because
[00:31:58] the, you know, technology is a space [00:32:00] where people
[00:32:00] without degrees can get in,
[00:32:02] that
[00:32:02] means
[00:32:02] that not having a degree is any sort of advantage. It's
[00:32:05] not. Not
[00:32:05] having a degree, not having a formal education
[00:32:08] is definitely
[00:32:09] still a relative disadvantage.
[00:32:10] But,
[00:32:11] clearly, because I don't have a computer science
[00:32:13] degree, I've never stepped into an
[00:32:14] IT class in my life,
[00:32:16] and I had
[00:32:17] all of one week's experience at a boot camp,
[00:32:19] clearly, formal education is not the only thing that works.
[00:32:22] And as long as you're able to build the skills and demonstrate it, yes, IT is a
[00:32:27] place where you can demonstrate it without having a piece of paper,
[00:32:30] but getting to the level where you can demonstrate a,
[00:32:32] Professional grades skill is hard,
[00:32:35] right?
[00:32:35] So that's why CS degrees and bootcamps
[00:32:37] are still popular. And they should be,
[00:32:39] they are really,
[00:32:39] really great services. They save you all the trial and error that would otherwise probably cause you to give up. And. As I spoke recently with John Cricket on his podcast, as he pointed out, curation is a hugely valuable
[00:32:52] thing.
[00:32:53] What does curation mean? Curation means
[00:32:54] taking away all the decision
[00:32:55] making and giving you the bits that are most relevant for you. Right? [00:33:00] Filtering out
[00:33:00] all the crap,
[00:33:01] all the crud,
[00:33:02] all the noise. That's a hugely
[00:33:04] valuable thing
[00:33:05] because it saves you a ton of time. It saves you a lot of attention. And most importantly, it increases the odds of success.
[00:33:11] Right, so your opportunity cost gets smaller
[00:33:13] as the more and better the curation is
[00:33:15] So that's why CS degrees and bootcamps
[00:33:17] are still popular and they should
[00:33:18] be because the trade off is very real
[00:33:21] You invest your money and it's easier and faster. That's a
[00:33:24] damn good deal If
[00:33:25] you ask me like anything else in life You know, if
[00:33:28] it's going to save you time and effort and make it much more comfortable and convenient and higher success
[00:33:32] of higher probability of success, that's worth money.
[00:33:35] There's no doubt about it. So you know, you can, of course, choose to keep the money
[00:33:40] and choose the slow, frustrating, confusing route.
[00:33:42] It'll take a lot more motivation and effort and consistency
[00:33:46] and patience for you to actually get there. That's totally true. Hey,
[00:33:51] that's
[00:33:51] a trade off. It's your life. You've got to make it right and sometimes some people sometimes people cannot afford these things And
[00:33:57] so they have to take
[00:33:57] the long route and that's that's just how it is
[00:33:59] [00:34:00] now
[00:34:00] Personally, I knew
[00:34:01] that there was a very, very high chance that I
[00:34:03] would make back the money I invested in any education I
[00:34:06] did. Now, I even did an MBA and it was from a really good school,
[00:34:09] and I'm
[00:34:10] in two minds about
[00:34:10] whether it was worth all the money I
[00:34:12] paid for it um, which probably gives you a
[00:34:13] sense of, you know, how much I
[00:34:15] probably paid for it. I paid quite a lot, and I saved up for
[00:34:17] two and a half years
[00:34:17] for that, so that's
[00:34:19] another thing.
[00:34:19] Like, I, I,
[00:34:19] I I truly
[00:34:20] believe if you want to succeed at these kind of things, it's career change and coding and stuff You need to play long games,
[00:34:26] right? If you're saying
[00:34:26] thinking in terms of
[00:34:27] six months, you're probably not
[00:34:28] going to make it
[00:34:29] Um, i'd say if you're
[00:34:29] thinking less than two to five
[00:34:31] years You're probably
[00:34:31] not going to have the sticking power required to
[00:34:33] actually build the career You need you can get your first coding job in 12 months.
[00:34:37] All my students
[00:34:37] do that's not
[00:34:38] the problem
[00:34:39] The problem is building the career But also they do it in my students during 12 months because they've
[00:34:43] got me to show them the
[00:34:44] way right like i'm literally Hand
[00:34:46] holding them the entire step of the way
[00:34:47] Um, but if you don't
[00:34:49] Then you need to be thinking three to
[00:34:51] five year timelines, assuming you can stay consistent and motivated the entire time.
[00:34:55] I'm
[00:34:56] probably going to sound
[00:34:57] like a hypocrite by saying all this because I [00:35:00] did not follow this advice for 10 years
[00:35:02] Uh Because I didn't know
[00:35:03] now I know so i've changed my mind about what I would have done differently If I could go back I would have done all this
[00:35:07] differently It took me 8 to 10 years to leave the career that I didn't really want to do Why
[00:35:11] it was too risky for me to leave
[00:35:12] I had all these reasons to stay None of them were good reasons, but they were all basically about
[00:35:16] fear. I don't want to lose the money I don't want to lose the prestige. I don't want to lose the time. I've
[00:35:20] invested all this while, you know That's the sunk cost fallacy.
[00:35:23] You But others like Michael took half that
[00:35:26] time, you know, you know, six
[00:35:27] or seven years to, to decide to
[00:35:28] leave and still others that
[00:35:30] I've met have joined my program after
[00:35:31] three or four years in a career, two years
[00:35:33] in a career, and they just decided, Okay, you know what, it's risky for me to leave
[00:35:37] this and to give up on what I've committed so much time, effort and money to and got a formal degree in,
[00:35:41] but there's something else that I really want to do.
[00:35:43] And my life is going to be less if I don't pursue it. And the risk
[00:35:46] Of pursuing something is is lower than the risk of staying in something and giving up all those opportunities that could have been my way again Opportunity
[00:35:54] cost right the trade offs are real
[00:35:56] and for a lot of people Even though it's risky for them to leave it's [00:36:00] much riskier for them to not make a change.
[00:36:02] That's the nature of life There's
[00:36:03] a trade off there's risks both ways
[00:36:06] Risking the risk of not changing
[00:36:08] is often bigger than the risk of trying That's just how
[00:36:11] it is, right?
[00:36:12] So
[00:36:12] guys that was a long
[00:36:14] conversation
[00:36:15] About all of this, but it's a very deep conversation. I dare say it's probably
[00:36:18] not an entertaining conversation but
[00:36:22] It really I've
[00:36:22] compressed more than 10 years of experience and insight into
[00:36:25] this thing and some of the best coaching that I've ever Received
[00:36:28] the best models of thinking about risk
[00:36:30] investment allocation of
[00:36:31] time and attention I've kind of tried to share all of that with you here.
[00:36:35] It's easiest to just think about it
[00:36:37] in terms of metaphors
[00:36:39] walk bus uber
[00:36:41] There's a time and a place for each of these
[00:36:43] things. There's no right
[00:36:43] or wrong, but there's a better decision for a given circumstance,
[00:36:46] right?
[00:36:47] And you've got to decide what your circumstances is, which place in your life
[00:36:51] you're in now.
[00:36:52] Maybe you're in a place in your life where walking or
[00:36:54] taking a bus is
[00:36:54] fine. Great. Do that. Do that. But if you're doing that because you're too afraid to [00:37:00] risk an Uber
[00:37:00] and you know you ought to,
[00:37:02] That's when the decision making should be
[00:37:04] questioned and examined,
[00:37:05] okay? So you have to
[00:37:06] use your
[00:37:07] judgment on this because life is about a bunch of
[00:37:09] judgment calls and decisions
[00:37:11] And yeah, the
[00:37:11] people who make better decisions get further in life.
[00:37:14] So you
[00:37:14] have to make the decision for yourself
[00:37:16] This is also what I help a lot of my students with is
[00:37:18] some of the decision
[00:37:19] making process But that's after they've taken the decision to work with
[00:37:22] me, which from their point of view, of course, it's a risk I
[00:37:24] mean, of course, it's a
[00:37:25] risk, right? They're taking a risk
[00:37:27] And me and you
[00:37:28] know or taking a chance on me in their eyes They're like wow i'm going to embark on this adventure with
[00:37:32] zubin and I hope I get there , and of
[00:37:34] course there's risk, right?
[00:37:35] There's risk
[00:37:35] for me too Like
[00:37:36] if they don't do the work I tell them and they don't get the results
[00:37:39] Then it kind of affects my reputation and there's nothing that'll
[00:37:41] recover
[00:37:42] reputation. It's not easy to do that. So
[00:37:44] Guys, everything has
[00:37:45] risk.
[00:37:46] Everything has trade
[00:37:46] offs. And decision making comes down to taking some gutsy
[00:37:50] decisions using your head and your heart.
[00:37:52] There's never
[00:37:52] one or the other. And you have to be okay with the trade offs and the risks that you
[00:37:55] take. Okay. Hope that
[00:37:56] was helpful and
[00:37:57] I'll see you next time. Now
[00:37:58] for those of you who
[00:37:59] are [00:38:00] watching this for the first time, look, I'd love it if
[00:38:01] you could like, and subscribe to this channel.
[00:38:04] Or to this podcast depending on how you're consuming it because the more
[00:38:07] love I get
[00:38:08] from you guys the more motivated I get
[00:38:10] Right.
[00:38:10] It's exactly the same
[00:38:11] with you
[00:38:11] the more positive feedback you get in your journey the more motivated you are
[00:38:14] So, you know pay it forward help me out here a little bit and
[00:38:17] i'll be glad to help
[00:38:18] you out in any
[00:38:19] Any way I can as well,
[00:38:20] but I hope
[00:38:21] you got a
[00:38:21] ton of value for
[00:38:22] this and whatever you do
[00:38:23] Remember, it's your life.
[00:38:24] It's your responsibility. It's your
[00:38:25] decision you
[00:38:26] you get to live with the consequences of your choices So keep
[00:38:29] your chin up and do the
[00:38:30] best you can and don't be
[00:38:31] afraid. All right, i'll see you another time
[00:38:33] OUTRO
---
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