[00:00:00] People seem to think that doing many portfolio projects is what a rock solid portfolio is. To show you've done Dozens of things. Think about it this way, guys. If you were the hiring manager and you saw someone with dozens of portfolios items, you'd be wondering how long has this person been looking in the market and why haven't they got something, right?
Hey guys. And welcome to the latest episode of easier said than done and how to do it.
In this episode, I want to talk to you about how to outcompete experienced software engineers In a very competitive market when you're a career changer.
Welcome to Easier Said Than Done with me, Zubin Pratap, where I share with you the tens of thousands of dollars worth of self development that I did on my journey from 37 year old lawyer to professional software engineer. The goal of this podcast is to show you how to actually do those things that are easier said than done.
I want to talk to you about how to outcompete experienced software engineers In a very competitive market when you're a career changer.
[00:01:00] Now look, the tech world is booming. We know that. Now, people are saying that tech is dead and software engineering is dead, but that cannot be true simply because if you observe what's happening in companies, they're continuing to invest in technology.
So what's happening right now is a shift in what technologies and how those technologies get used, Just like the invention of the computer shifted people away from having typing pools. For those of you who aren't old enough to know, there was a time when there were pools of people called typists who would just do typing work on behalf of everybody else in the office who didn't know how to type.
So the tech world is changing. But it's also booming, right? And that means that if you look at the numbers out there,
we've now returned to pre pandemic levels, the competition for software engineering roles and the opportunities
are both fierce, right? They're fantastic on the opportunity side, but the competition is quite fierce.
And if you really analyze it,
And I encourage all students to join me in the Inner Circle Program to really learn how to understand market [00:02:00] dynamics. Okay, because my role is not to teach them just to code and then to get their first job.
My role is to teach them how to build a successful 30, 40 year career as software engineers or engineers. Or in adjacent fields like product management, program management, all the way up to CDO levels, right? Now it's really important to understand when you're approaching any market This is not unique to tech that you're facing off intense competition for people who could be more qualified than you For example, they could be graduates from top universities with fancy CS degrees or they could be seasoned professionals with years of Professional paid experience that you just don't have and the candidates that you're competing with typically will have very impressive or compelling resumes At least the top three or four, right?
Now a lot of people think that oh i'm competing with myself Which sounds great philosophically, but it's not true
because if you're competing with yourself, then one version of you is going to get the job and that's not true, right? You're competing with others in the marketplace. You really need to understand that dynamic and it's different in every city.
Like my students in [00:03:00] Vancouver have a significantly harder time with the technical interviews because. Vancouver has a lot of Amazon folks in there, right? Much more than Toronto or Winnipeg, for example, or Los Angeles, even. San Francisco, I believe, has a far harder technical market than Los Angeles does, and they're just an hour's flight away, right?
So as a career changer, you need to really understand not just the coding stuff, but how to stand out in a marketplace.
Now, let's be honest. Most of us, Do not know how to think about this from the point of view of the hiring manager, right? We do not put ourselves in the shoes of the hiring manager. And I understand that.
How could we, most of us, or most people have not been on the hiring side. I'm fortunate to have done that for over 20 years now, been in the hiring side in three different careers in four countries, right? Let me tell you what the hiring manager is likely thinking. They're likely thinking. Um, this candidate, they seem keen, they seem interested, they've learned a bit.
I can see their GitHub or whatever it is that you're showing in your resume, this is true whether or not you're going for engineering jobs or not, right? It's across any [00:04:00] industry in the world. And I've seen this, like I said, for almost a quarter of a century.
So the hiring manager is likely thinking, well, this person doesn't really have a traditional background. They're not a computer science graduate. They
. Yeah. Do they really have the technical depth? Because all I'm seeing here is a bunch of things in their GitHub, which frankly anybody can do from following a tutorial, especially these days with AI doesn't show you actually know how to solve problems with code.
Can they handle the pressure, the uncertainty, the extreme ambiguity of actually finding domain level expertise or actually finding domain problems to be solved and designed through, right?
Will they be a long time asset to this company? Will they actually contribute positively to team dynamics? Will they have what we call in what we used to call in Google, good citizenship and good allyship with each other and with the company, right?
So it isn't just about beating the competition head to head on pure raw coding skills, at least initially, you know, and I'd argue probably never, right. It's actually about demonstrating a unique value proposition that is commercially valuable. [00:05:00] Now, a lot of people. Keep thinking that, oh, I'm different. I'm unique.
You know, you should take a chance on me because I'm such and such. I have all these attributes. The only thing that matters is whether those attributes you think sets you apart are commercially valuable in the eyes of the hiring manager. So that's your job to demonstrate that, right? Now, there's a catch.
Most of these things can only be demonstrated after you get the interviews and most career changes to code and even some senior coders don't actually know how to get interviews. So it's like being all dressed up with no date for prom night, right? You have to know how to get the date not just dress yourself up nicely
You have to know how to get interviews now That is step five in my ladder to career change my seven steps of career change, right?
Whether it's to code anything else. It's the same thing step five to eight and this is what I teach my students I do all seven steps with my students,
That's why I say you have to work with me for a year Right because there are no shortcuts.
Now steps five to seven are every bit as important [00:06:00] for long term career success. Remember, we're playing the long game as the first few steps around learning to code and all of that. You need all of them. You need all seven to change, but five to seven are every bit as important. And step five, like I mentioned, is how to get interviews.
So
how do you get interviews? How do you get the attention of recruiters and demonstrate that you're worth the risk
compared to the hundreds of candidates out there who are probably
more qualified than you, certainly more professionally experienced than you, and possibly are less risky, almost certainly going to be less risky.
Hi, if you want a no BS insight into how to change your career, whether to code or something else and how to actually get job opportunities in tech, then please subscribe and like.
It's no BS because I have zero incentive to mislead you. I just want to help you and give you tons of value so that you will consider working with me to get to your next career.
Take a look at the
description text below to learn more about the training I offer. But I do post content here regularly and by subscribing and liking and hitting that notification bell you will get to know when I post new [00:07:00] industry insights for you. You'll also know within about three seconds if you want to learn more, but at least you won't miss out.
Oh, and please follow me on LinkedIn too. I pretty much post there every single day. Just look for my name, Zubin Pratap. All right. So please like, and subscribe to this channel and let's get back to the episode.
how do you get interviews? How do you get the attention of recruiters and demonstrate that you're worth the risk
compared to the hundreds of candidates out there who are probably
more qualified
By the way, this is something I had to face when I was a lawyer, when I switched to management. When I had my own startup, and I'll explain more on that later, how that experience really helped me know how to stand out in the marketplace.
So here are my top suggestions for you, right? There are a bunch of points here that I'm going to walk you through about four points and each of them I've split into two sub points.
Okay. Because I believe those two sub points make up the main point.
All right. So number one. Leverage a unique background. Now, I know we all hear this. It sounds like such a cliche. And hey, the reality is that cliches do help because cliches [00:08:00] actually have a kernel of truth, which is the simple wisdom that you need. Okay. So leverage a unique background. Now, here are two ways you can do it.
Be very clear on the why tech and why this company story, right? Hiring managers are intrigued by this. All human beings are intrigued by compelling narratives that come from the heart and that actually make sense that don't seem fake. So why tech? What problem are you passionate about solving? What is interesting to you about tech?
Why is this possibly one of the most important things in your professional life? How does your prior experience of the sales, marketing, law, teaching, advertising, music doesn't matter, right? How does your prior experience uniquely equip you to think differently, communicate effectively, and bring a fresh perspective to challenges of software development?
And not just fresh, but fresh in a commercially valuable way, right?
So that's one way you leverage your unique background. And as you can imagine, it's not something you do in a weekend. It's not something you think about while you're driving.
You need to do [00:09:00] concerted, systematic, what I call with my students, excavation. Right. And then you need to shift your identity. And this can take weeks, guys. Under guidance, it can take weeks, right? Okay. The other aspect to leveraging your unique background is showing domain expertise.
Now, if you have domain expertise, which means deep knowledge in a specific industry or domain, it could be online marketing.
It could be sales. In my case, it was law, finance and regulation, right? If you have deep domain experience, you can parlay or transfer that Domain experience to say that you're actually more rounded out for a certain role. So as a software engineer, let's say in the legal tech phase, I've actually never accepted any of those offers.
By the way, I wanted to not get stuck in the domain, but some of my offers initially did come from that space because they're like, Hey, you've been a lawyer 16 years and you're very senior lawyer, and you can code so great. This is what you should come and do for us. Now that's an advantage because when you have deep domain expertise and you'd be surprised, it could be anything could be from trucking all All the way to music, right?
If you have domain [00:10:00] expertise, this is gold. For example, if you're transitioning into FinTech, leverage your experience in finance. If you're interested in healthcare tech, highlight your understanding of patient care, or maybe you're a doctor, maybe you've been a nurse, you know, highlight these things, right?
This gives you a significant edge over generalists, because not only do you bring the core skills, assuming you do, but you're also able to show how that you can connect the dots commercially For the company and the hiring manager to the ultimate goal of the company because remember the ultimate goal of the company is not to write software paying expensive software engineers to do it The ultimate goal of the company is to make plenty of money so that it has the operating profits to pay you your salary That's the goal.
Okay, so that's number one way. Number two way. And by the way, there's no ranking to this,
but the number two way is to demonstrate soft skills, but on steroids. And again, you hear about this a lot, but what does this mean? Well, first and foremost, especially these days, as more and more AI assists people in their jobs, again, not unique to code.
I know that this is happening in law, in finance, In medicine, in [00:11:00] sales, in advertising, and even in day to day marketing type jobs in companies, people are getting AI training because AI is a powerful tool, right? So communication is king. What does that mean? Especially in the fast paced tech world, clear and concise communication is paramount.
Career changes can always come. often have massive advantages in this area. So you would want to start by showcasing your ability to explain and distill complex technical concepts to non technical audiences to show that you can actively listen and provide meaningful feedback or commentary on technical things.
That's one way that you can demonstrate the soft skill. The second thing is Problem solving prowess. Now, too many people think that problem solving in computer science or software engineering is about advanced data structures and algorithms No, that's one type of problem that it may not be commercially useful though, right?
For a hiring manager The problem solving is here's an idea ambiguous thing that needs to be done. We may not know how to do [00:12:00] it. There are significant customer challenges or finance challenges or structural challenges or regulatory challenges or behavioral challenges that stop the end user or the customer for being able to do what we want them to do with the product in a way that gets the customer the advantage and the outcome.
Now you have to solve this problem with code. That's the kind of highly ambiguous unstructured problem that really matters. Okay, so if you have any experience in that, highlight those experience, emphasize your analytical ability, your research abilities, and your critical thinking abilities, your ability to reason inductively and deductively and from first principles.
If you don't know what those terms mean, don't worry about it. Just Google them, right?
So how do you approach challenges, identify root causes, find creative solutions? That's extremely valuable to companies because that's what you're actually going to write in code.
And finally when it comes to the soft skills on steroids component, you want to add adaptability and resilience because that is absolutely a key soft skill.
Now learning to code is hard. Career change is even harder and the entire [00:13:00] process together is very challenging. So use the hard times to demonstrate your ability to learn. To adapt, to persist through obstacles, to recover from failure, and to be creative in your strategies when you do.
Okay, number three, build a rock solid portfolio. Yes, again, we've heard about this a lot of times. And people seem to think that doing many portfolio projects is what a rock solid portfolio is. To show you've done Dozens of things. Think about it this way, guys. If you were the hiring manager and you saw someone with dozens of portfolios items, you'd be wondering how long has this person been looking in the market and why haven't they got something, right?
Why have they built so many projects and not gotten anywhere? So having too many projects is also a red flag and people don't understand this because they've not been on the hiring side and they listen to influencers online who tell you to build projects, but they haven't been on the hiring side either.
So in my case, I did one project that was really good and it was very, very personalized to me, but I'll talk [00:14:00] about that in a moment. So you have to go first principle under building a rock solid portfolio is go beyond basic follow along type projects. Don't just build a to do list. Don't build another YouTube clone, you know, focus on projects that align with your interests and they demonstrate your problem solving abilities.
Remember the soft skill we talked about? Yeah. They demonstrate that you're able to approach a real life problem, break it down, and solve at least a part of it using code. Now, people say you can contribute to open source projects. Yes, you could. I personally haven't done that a great deal. I find that extremely time consuming and not as satisfying for myself.
I prefer to build personal projects that solve real world problems or participate In challenges at work or other things and try and just solve them with code. Okay.
Now the other angle to building a great portfolio is your portfolio and the one or two projects in it should tell a story. For me, I had a huge advantage, right? Apart from the project, I had my failed startup behind me, so I could tell a [00:15:00] story around that, but not. Everybody can talk about a startup or a commercial venture. I get it. So you can do a project that tells a story. For example,
I love reading and listening to podcasts and listening to books, right?
And I'm always facing a problem where I have all these things I want to look at blogs youTube videos, podcasts I want to listen to people send them to me or I'll encounter them while I'm scrolling Or searching for something on the internet and I used to make myself a note saying I'll come back to this You know later or like bookmarking. The problem was I'd never returned to my bookmarks, right?
So I built a tool where I could email a certain email address all the things I wanted To be reminded about and then at the end of the week I'd get a single email with all the links, whether it's YouTube videos, Spotify links, didn't matter, blogs, all of it was all emailed to me once a week.
And I made this available to other people. And I said, you can choose the time in your time zone when this gets delivered to your inbox. Okay. Now, actually, when you think about it, it doesn't sound too [00:16:00] complicated, but to work across time zones, to keep track of people's preferences, to keep track of all their subject lines and actually what the link In the email was that they wanted to come back you have to be able to do a bunch of coding related Mini problem solving right, but I was able to tell a story with this to show that hey, I love learning I love consuming High quality content, but there's more of it than I have time and I need to then have a way to organize this Make it searchable in my inbox return to stuff and things like that And I did all this in my project, right?
It was called GetRemynd. I haven't been maintaining that project for several years now, but that one project was able to give me a ton of conversations and interviews, right? So you're able you must tell a story and it's not something you've seen in a tutorial It's not something you've seen in another youtube video or a blog It's something that I encountered in my life that I wanted to solve And it was hard to solve because I didn't have all the skills But that was where the learning was at the end of it.
I learned so much more About how to
parse the text in an email about how to sanitize links in your emails, like stuff [00:17:00] like that, that you know you, which is actually real production grade stuff you would normally learn in a quick tutorial where you're following along because you haven't had to solve the problem yourself.
You haven't had to research yourself.
So being able to tell a story with your code is critical and you don't need too many projects. One, two, three really good personal projects with a story behind them That is personal to you that shows your interest as is more than enough.
All right Now the number four point that you must do in order to stand out in the market is You must cultivate a growth mindset, which means two things.
You must embrace continuous learning Because the tech world, in fact, the whole world evolves rapidly these days. So demonstrate a genuine passion for learning new things and a commitment to continuous improvement. Now, the mistake that people make here is that they try and learn too much.
In the Inner Circle Program, I do the opposite, right? I go from trying to learn everything that you see in those job listings. Now, I don't do that. I never do that. I still don't do that. Okay. I believe in something that I call the Minimum Effective , which is a concept I borrowed from chemistry and pharmacology, [00:18:00] right?
If you have an illness, you want the minimum effective dose of a medicine that will solve the problem, to cure the illness. You don't want to throw everything and the kitchen sink at the illness, because something else will happen. Okay. So boring, that idea, but I said, what's the minimum effective dose for learning to code and getting hired?
And that's exactly what I work on with my students. Now it's extremely hard to do because you need to eliminate a lot of things while maintaining continuous learning. So to show commitment to learning, get very good at a few things that are almost universally used as software engineers. That is not a particular language, by the way.
Like when I went to Google, I didn't know any of the languages that to write in. People seem to think that learning another language means continuous learning. It could, I'm not saying it doesn't, obviously it does. It clearly does, but it's not the kind of continuous learning that makes you stand out in the market.
You see, there's continuous learning for the sake of learning. And then there's strategic continuous learning. Okay. So that's the thing with continuous learning. When you're trying to break into a new industry where you have no [00:19:00] credibility or background. It can't just be continuous learning for the sake of it because there's no end to it and there's just too much to learn.
Your entire lifetime will not be enough to learn even 10 percent of it. So it has to be highly intentional and strategic continuous learning. That's what I help my students do.
The next thing is you want to seek feedback and iterate, right? Actively seek feedback on your code, projects, interview performance, and use this feedback to keep getting better.
And I keep telling my students, never repeat the same mistake twice. If you're getting the same feedback more than once, that's on you. And you've just lost a big opportunity for improvement. All right.
Next point for standing out is you've got to network. Again, not just network, but network strategically.
Two paths to this. One is build meaningful relationships. You can start off with not knowing anyone and then you attend industry events and join online communities. I'm not a huge fan of online communities, by the way. Feel free to ask me in the comments why. I experience this a lot daily in my job and, you know, I interact with thousands of developers as part of my job , every year.
I'm interacting with thousands of developers around the world. I [00:20:00] personally think online communities are the most inefficient way to actually learn and get to your outcomes. Very good to make you feel good and part of something and loved. Great emotionally. Very bad strategically in my opinion, but that's me.
Okay, the important thing here is when you're building relationships, you've got to meaningfully connect with other people, not just developers, guys, not just developers. Recruiters are going to be far more influential in your career change to code than developers will. Why? Because developers aren't incentivized to get you a job.
Recruiters are. This is literally their living. Okay. So building meaningful relationships takes time, but it does open the doors to new opportunities. And more importantly, it does two things. It provides you with valuable industry insights. So you look like an insider and two, it builds credibility and trust in the market before you even arrive in the market asking for a job.
Okay. Now, as part of building relationships, try and do informational interviews, which is the fancy way of saying when you've built meaningful relationships, ask for a coffee catch up and then ask [00:21:00] that person important, meaningful, insightful questions about the industry and try and learn as much as you can.
Now, informational interviews have been around a long time. I remember learning about them in the nineties, right? But I was still in law school. So, it's been around a long time. Don't think it's anything new that you've seen in social media. But the problem is people are practicing it very poorly these days.
Because what's happening is, they're reaching out to random strangers on LinkedIn and Twitter. Because we have these tools. Do not do that. Yes, it'll work some Percentage of the time just like a dead clock will give you the right time twice a day doesn't mean it's an effective strategy Right. You have to earn the right guys to have an Informational interview you have to put in the work and build that relationship before Good quality informational interviews can come ones that can actually open doors for you, right?
So don't just reach out to random people and say hey, can you help me? Hey, can you talk to me?
I've had so many people from bootcamps reach out to me saying, Oh, our career services person said I should reach out to six people for informational interviews. And I said, great. Okay. [00:22:00] Is that why you're reaching out to me?
Yes. I'd love 30 minutes of your time. And I'm like, well, you know, if I get 20 requests like that, that's what, 20 times 30. That's a lot of time. That's 600 minutes. That's 10 hours. I, I, it's not going to work. However, those people who've built a relationship with me for 6, 7, 8, 10 months, or, really good quality relationships at an event, for example, I'm much more likely to spend the time with them, right?
Because they've earned that right. They've got the credibility. Now, the reason why so many career services things and bootcamps say this is they're just reading off some blog and they're telling you to follow that process. I have never met, no exaggeration, I have never met a career services person in any college or bootcamp who've actually changed careers.
Definitely not to tech. Maybe they change from, I don't know, sales to marketing or, um, you know, something else. That's a career change, but not as big a shift as going from non technical to software engineering. So the advice these people are giving is just recycled advice from the internet. The advice that I'm giving you is based on my own experience of career change.[00:23:00]
You have not earned the right to ask for help until you've built a meaningful relationship. And that takes time, intentionality, thoughtfulness, and the ability to communicate. And all of these are critical skills that we've already talked about. So All of these skills sort of fit into each other like Lego blocks.
And when you're building one skill, you're also building other skills. It's like going to the gym and doing a compound exercise. Sure. You may target the chest, right? But you're also working out your deltoids and your triceps and a little bit of your back. Compound exercises, compound skills. Okay. And these are far more important than the, Oh, you know, I'm going to just reach out to 20 people on LinkedIn kind of thing.
That's part of the strategy, but it has to be much more intentional of that.
Now I really want you to understand where I got all this insight from, right? It's because it's actually identical to what. My experience was when I was launching my startup, right? Think about it launching any new product in a crowded marketplace The marketplace already has other products that have more credibility That have been around longer than you that are [00:24:00] more tried and tested and the brands are trusted, right?
So established brands enjoy strong brand loyalty and customer trust. Now in the labor marketplace. You're the seller And the hiring manager is the buyer, right? Hiring managers look for other brands, other applicants who have some amount of existing customer trust, which means they're already software engineers or have really good computer science degrees behind them, right?
You as the career changer are the new entrant. You're like the new product trying to be sold in the market and you cannot directly compete on brand history or established market share or other credibility indicators. Instead,
you've got to focus on your USP, your unique selling proposition. Which is not just what makes you special.
Nobody cares.
This thing about transferable skills really annoys me because people think, Oh, I have transferable skills. Do you? It depends on the person who you're transferring to. They will decide whether your so called transferable skills are valuable or not. Great. I may be a fantastic communicator, but if I'm going to be a [00:25:00] tailor, maybe that doesn't matter so much, right?
Or if I'm going to be a car mechanic, maybe it does matter that much if I'm interacting a lot with people. People front of house. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. You need to assess that, right? So you need to think about this when you're thinking about your unique selling proposition your USP think about what customer need You intend to satisfy better than the competition see all the pieces there So you need to think who's your ideal customer what unique value can you bring to the table that will benefit them?
Exactly like a successful startup identifies a niche market and then steadily builds a loyal customer base Career changers also need to identify their unique strengths and leverage them systematically in a sequenced way to differentiate themselves in the market.
In my own entrepreneurial journey, I learned the invaluable lessons of identifying market gaps, building a compelling brand story, cultivating interested and loyal customers, getting their attention and then getting their interest, right?
These are two different stages.
In fact, that's classical [00:26:00] marketing theory, right? There's awareness, there's interest, there's a decision, and there's an action. You have to move through those steps. You had to take the recruiters and engineers through the steps before you can successfully change your career.
I also learned a really important lesson when I was doing the starter thing from Paul Graham, the do things that don't scale principle, right? It was critical for Airbnb success, for example. Now this mantra was critical for me getting my first engineering jobs. Because it's exactly the same mental model that people use for getting their first paying customers.
You have to use the same principles of doing things that don't scale, marketing yourselves a certain way, targeting niche segments, right? Folks,
these are all the same principles that apply to succeeding in the competitive world of software engineering as well. Now the bottom line is competing in the tech job market as a career changer is much harder than competing in the tech job market as just
another engineer in the market right? As a career changer. You require a meticulous strategy that is sequenced in the right way stacked in the right order for [00:27:00] your specific goals and target market because it's different from individual to individual and it's different from target market to target market just like any product.
Okay, try selling skis in the Bahamas. It's just not going to make sense, right? So, focus on your strengths, leverage your prior experience, and relentlessly apply a growth mindset to build relationships and to learn the things that you don't know. Never repeat the same mistake twice. Then, by showcasing your USP, and you build a strong credibility before you apply for the roles, then when you arrive to apply for the roles, you're able to effectively compete, even with the most experienced candidates.
This is what I did when I was going to Google, right? I had the learn to code and career change plan, and. That took about nine months and then, and that was after five years of failure, nine months with the proper plan, like I've talked about. And then I set my sights on FANG and I got interviews with Amazon, Google, Snapchat, you know, and I ended up actually going with Google because, you know, Hey, it's Google.
But again, that was completely different plan. And I had to build my credibility before I could start [00:28:00] applying. And that fang preparation process took almost a year. Completely different plan though, right? And I was looking to go to the U. S. for that one from Australia. So again, it wasn't just like I was looking in my own backyard.
I had to make a plan that would work in the U. S. while I was in another country. Completely different system from saying, hey, I'm just gonna apply to Google in my own backyard. It doesn't work that way, right?
Please remember, it's not about being better than someone with a CS degree. It's about demonstrating to a hiring manager that you are the ideal candidate for that specific role and team because you can get the job done in ways that the other applicants can't.
Cannot and it's on you to tell that story to tell that story You have to understand what it is that that hiring manager that company that specific role and team is looking for And what they value so that you can supply that need.
All right, so hope that's been helpful This is a very very systematic deep dive.
I don't want you guys to think that this is an easy thing to do It's not there's too much BS out there telling you this is [00:29:00] easy. You can do it in one month and it's not it's systematic It requires Training, just like changing your body, working out at the gym, getting good at something, takes training and training and training.
You've got to train at this kind of stuff. Which is why the students that I do invite into the Inner Circle program, I tell them, if you're not willing to do this for, you know, 40 to 52 weeks, like that's almost a year, then Probably don't start because it's going to take you that amount of time to get world class at competing with established coders.
Okay. Hope that helps. And please like and subscribe and look at the links in the description for how you can apply to work with me in the inner circle program. I work with very few people for a very long time, so no promises that everyone will get in. I can tell you now, everyone's not going to get invited, obviously.
, but it's something that I'm very passionate about. And now I'm working with Brian on this as well. So if that's what you want, hit the links in the description and we'll have a chat. We can have a conversation. All right. See you later. Bye.
Just subscribe, you know you gotta do [00:30:00] it.
